Mail Bag

Dear Randy,

I felt compelled to write you. I hunt in Pa and NY. PA recently introduced
an early muzzleloader doe season that coincides with the early
junior/senior rifle doe season. I saw this as an opportunity to get some
early warmer weather hunting in, while joining my dad in the field (which is
always a treat.) I started searching for an inline gun last year, and had
almost settled on one of the Traditions gun because it looked simple to
clean, and inexpensive. I did some research on the Internet before my
purchase, and came across the link to your articles on the web.

I must tell you, the articles on the web sound like hype designed by salesmen
wanting to peddle their products. Fortunately, I own several Savage guns, and
I find their accuracy to be uncompromising, while being offered at a very
fair price. Knowing this, I followed your advice, and purchased one of the
new 10ML-II guns with the Accutrigger. I weighed out a bunch of 44g AA5744
charges (I am a reloader anyway), and set out to the range with my Federal
209A primers, 250g XTP bullets and MMP sabots this morning. I fired a few at
close range to check the zero on my scope. It was easy to load, and much
more comfortable to shoot than my 12 gauge slug gun (Savage 210, a fine
gun). I pressed out to 100 yards, and reached an acceptable zero at that
range. Allowing a bit of time to cool down between rounds, I fired a final 5
shots for grouping. I was amazed! Without even trying, I had managed to fire
5 into 5 touching holes for a group that was just a shade over 1". Right out
of the box!!!! I feel totally confident hunting with my dad this weekend,
and I may never go back to my favorite slug gun in NY either.

So what I thought was a cult of Savage fanatics, turned out to be a group of
honest and humane hunters that found the rewards of this gun before the
masses. Thank you so much for putting out information that, while sounding
to good to be true, was right on the money. The time saved cleaning, and the
dollars saved in shooting supplies is just an added bonus. I love this gun
already, and it has not even been to the field. I'll let you know how that
turns out.

Keep up 10ML crusade,
Tom Mlodzienski
Rochester, NY

P.S.- The Accutrigger is the best trigger on any over-the-counter gun. Wish
I had them on all my guns.

Hi Tom,

Of course I very much appreciate your letter. Your experience coincides with what thousands of new 10ML-II hunters are discovering every year-- there is just no reason to put up with poor triggers, corrosive propellants, high recoil, stuck breechplugs, overpriced pellets, primers that stick in breechplugs, unproofed barrels, poor accuracy, or muzzleloaders that take longer to clean than your deer. The Savage 10ML-II is the only one that lets you see what you are shooting at.

For far too long, muzzleloaders have been built like tinker-toys. There is only one muzzleloader on the market that exceeds all SAAMI and ANSI centerfire standards, made in the USA with the closest tolerances and tightest quality control ever put into one frontloader. It outperforms every other on the market because it is just plain built better, and stronger. Folks don't realize how vastly superior the Savage 10ML-II until they get one for themselves, and see the difference for themselves. Many, many muzzleloading enthusiasts have never shot a 1" 100 yard 5-shot group in their lives. With the current 10ML-II, it is the rule more often than the exception. Congratulations, now you know what it can really do!

It will serve you well for many, many years.

Randy

Hello again, Randy,

No questions, just want to say "Thanks".

As per your suggestion a few weeks ago, I acquired the new Elite 3200 short action scope for my TC Encore. You were right! Worked dandy at the range, and I bagged a deer just yesterday with it. Using 100 gr. Triple 7, and 220gr Dead Center bullets, which you suggested some time back might work well in my Encore. They do!

Over the last two years your muzzleloader e-mail "consults" have saved me time and money again, and again. Well aware that you've never asked a nickel for all this worthwhile advice, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate it alot.

Blessings!

Your grateful fan,

John

Hi John,

I'm glad it worked out for you. Encores can be a bit fussy-- you've likely heard all the "recommendations" about oversized hingepins, cutting off the QLA on the barrel and recrowning, and having to change out action springs with aftermarket parts to get a decent trigger. I get more complaints about Encores than any other muzzleloader, perhaps because they cost so much-- on sale in this area for $749 in SS / camo tupperware stock configuration.

An oversized hinge pin makes no sense-- it has to be a clearance fit to be able to open the action, and the scope / sights are attached to the barrel, anyway. A QLA is no problem unless it is eccentric, but that would be a warrany issue. Start cutting barrels, you own them. Encores are well-made guns, it may take some work to get a decent trigger, but one thing pure lead can do is accomodate bores that are both tight or loose-- as pure lead wants to shorten and belly out (obturate) upon firing. It has been a good fix for picky frontloaders, and I'm glad it worked out for you.

Randy

Randy
I have a 10ml and wish to hunt whitetail in IL. with it. Is there any conversion kit that can be used to make it use percussion cap as the regulations state.
Don Baron

Hi Don,

209 primers ARE defined as "a legal percussion cap" in Illinois, and have been for some time. You are good to go-- ! It is refreshing when "all you need to get" is nothing.

Randy

"Randy Wakeman wrote:

It makes no sense to shoot a gun that does not allow you to see what happens after you pull the trigger unless you have to. With the Savage, you don't have to."

Yea, I forgot that is another reason I am buying a savage. My hunting buddy lost a doe this year for that very reason. Broad side 40 yards, smoke belches and she is completely gone. No blood, but we know he hit her, or at least the odds are extremely low that he missed. Without knowing which direction she ran it was tough and we never found her.

"Elkstalker"

Well, Elkstalker, there's no reason I can think of why you wouldn't want to see what you are shooting at, as you have discovered. That's another great reason to hunt with a 10L-II-- to see what you have been "missing" with corrosive pellet-burners.

Randy,

Have you ever had a bad batch of black MMP sabots, if there is such a thing? I bought a new 10ML-II a few weeks back, and was anxious to get it on paper. I was using the setup recommended: AA5744 w/3.4cc Lee dipper, short MMP black sabots, and Hornady 300g XTP's. The gun was not grouping at all, so I decided to pick up some of the spent sabots and take a look at them. Some were performing as they should and others were blown out/mangled due to the powder ignition. I switched to the sabots supplied by hornady w/ their bullets, and the gun began giving me 1" and sub 1" at 100yds. Have you ever had MMP sabots do this? I ordered them from MidSouth Shooters Supply.

Thanks.....Matt

Hi Matt,

MMP has improved their sabots, offering new formulations year after year . . . six or seven times that I kmow of. There is no telling how an individual retailer might rotate their inventory, so you could easily get sabots that are a few formulations old. The only way to be sure you are getting the latest and best sabots is to order direct from mmpsabots.com, over the net or by phone. There is no other way that I know of, and the sabot is far too vital of a component not to settle for the best on.

Randy

Randy,
i have read and enjoyed many of your articles. most of them being about break action muzzle loaders and the savage 10 ml 2.i have wanted the savage ever since i first read about them and after having nothing but bad luck from break action mls i finally bought one. i have had it now for over a year and i still haven't gotten a load that gives me a good tight consistent group.i have tried imr 4227 and accurate 5744 with the hornady xtp/mag 240 and 300 grain and they are litterally all over a 9x11 sheet at 100 yds. i have reluctantly for the time being settled on 295 gr.powerbelt bullets with the 5744 with a 5 or 6 inch group at 100 yds.i am not happy.i have read that some people are shooting the barnes spit fire so i am trying them next . can you give me any extra info to help ? i would be very thankful for any help i could get.
thanks,
kerry bradley

Hi Kerry,

Thanks for writing. For starters, why not use Savage Arms recommended loads? They work well, and there are some 20,000 Savage muzzleloaders out there that shoot them inside 1-1/2" year after year. Use of Powerbelts and ALL other conicals with smokeless powder is PROHIBITED by Savage Arms; saboted bullets ONLY are allowed as stated right in the manual. All Powerbelts are likely to get you is barrel that is full of lead-- and worthless in the accuracy dept.

Savage Arms has only three preferred recommended powders: N110, 5744, and SR4759. The current manual is free for the download on the Savage Arms website, or by calling customer service-- they are happy to help.

XTP "Mag" bullets have never been recommended by Savage. I've tried them; they grouped poorly or not at all in five different teest guns. Use 40 - 42 grains Viltavouri N110 with the std. .452 Hornady 250 grain XTP, or 40 - 44 gr. Accurate Arms 5744 with a standard Hornady .452 300 XTP. Make sure to use current formulation short, black, 50-.451 sabots direct from mmpsabots.com. Use the right stuff, make sure you have a drilled out breechplug (after every 100 shots) and a ventliner in good shape-- and more than likely you'll be shooting 1" groups like everybody else. Let me know how you do.

Randy

Randy,
I went out again this morning to shoot some new loads in the Savage. Found that your load of 57grs N120 with a 300gr XTP shot super nice groups. I went to the long MMP sabot as well. Groups hover right at 1" at both 100yds and 150yds, which is where I have the gun zeroed.
I also found that my 250gr SST load is also zeroed perfectly with the same settings. It's so nice to have something like this! The SSTs don't group as well but they are plenty good enough to hit a 2.5" circle at 150yds. Thanks again for all your help and advice,

John

Hi John,

57 grains of N120 has proven to be just an outstanding load with 300 grain bullets. Just today, I was testing the Hornady .458 300 grain hollow points (Hornady #4500) inside the MMP Orange 50-.458 sabot. The groups @ 102 yards hovered between .50 and .75 inches. It is getting hard to find a 300 grain bullet that won't shoot well with N120! The basics are this, covered elsewhere. Start with 54 grains, and slowly work up not to exceed 60 grains. 57 grains is ideal for me; however others have found 54 or 55 grains to be more comfortable to shoot-- and nothing can live on the difference.

Randy

I own a CVA Apollo rifle and wanted to comment on the letters you had sent. I congratulate you on standing up for what you believe is right. I agree with you.

I have never had a problem with the rifle personally and have shot it many times. I stopped using it several years ago and I am currently trying to decide which new black powder on the market I am going to buy.

You brought up several good points and those in question seem to have no intelligent response. I was thinking about selling my Apollo to a friend of mine who wants to try out black powder hunting. After reading your information I can no longer justify trying to recover my original cost to put towards a new one.

Stay with it.

Thank you,

Mark Ackerson

Hello Mark,

Fortunately, we have several reputable companies that do offer us product that is well-tested and proven safe prior to being offered for sale. Savage Arms, Knight Rifles, and Thompson / Center are among those quality companies. When the well being of ourselves, loved-ones, and innocent bystanders is on the line with a shot that can never be called back-- it only makes sense to use the best made equipment we can. There is no substitute for proper education and safe muzzleloading practices, though-- that is the responsibility we assume when be become "hand-loaders in the field." Now you know why I most often choose to hunt with a Savage 10ML-II, with great pride and great confidence.

Randy

Randy,
After changing my scope and rings, things have really changed.
Unbelievable!!!
I shot a total of 10 shots today at the range. Almost 1 holers at 100 yards.
My last 3 shot group at 180 yards was bullseye just under 1 1/2" center to center. It's about time!!!
My load was 43.5 gr 4759, 250 SST with supplied sabot (looks like an HPH12), and a Federal 209A. I LOVE MY HENRY BALL!!

Gary Gilliam

Hi Randy,

My new Savage 10 ml-11 shoots at least as good as my HB did. I am very pleased with it. The first 5 shots were as follows:

#1 5 inches low at 25 yards. Adjust scope a million clicks up.
#2 1.5 inches high at 50 yards. No adjustment.
#3 2 inches high at 100 yards. Centered over aiming point.
#4 Touching the top of #3 making a figure 8.
#5 3/4 inch right of #4.

I am not a bench rest shooter and I have never shoot a smaller 3 shot group.
I always wondered why they put those little plastic bags with 5 250 grain XTP's and sabots in the box. Now I know.
Just add 44 grains of AA5744 and sight your gun in and shoot a great group with the last 3 in the bag.
I used a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5x10 and one of your .033 ventliners and didn't even bore sight it before trying the 25 yard target.
I shot several more groups before the wind made me quit, and I would have been proud to have anyone watch me shoot that day.

A very happy Savage shooter,

Jim Amirault
Romulus, Mi.

Hi Gary & Jim,

It is this type of actual field results that makes Henry Ball and all the folks at Savage smile. It is the rule more than the exception-- I'll be sure to pass it on!

Randy

 

 

Email: randymagic@aol.com

 

Custom Search